Thoroseal vs. Sanitred for waterproofing
Does anyone have experience with both? I currently have seapage in my basement during heavy rains and need to do something to fix it. Due to my circumstances exterior excavation is not an option, so I was hoping to try one of these out on the interior before resorting to and interior drainage system. I will also be extending downspouts on the exterior. I have used Thoroseal professionally and on my own projects and have never had a problem. All of the Thoro products have been used by architects and engineers for many, many years. I first used it and still had very minor seepage once ot twice a year at the floor/slab joint (typical problem that can easily be fixed by Thoroplug). I was curious and punched a hole in the basement wall about 4 feet up and got a strong steady stream of water for several minutes. The Thoroseal did an impossibly good job, but if you are collecting water around your foundation, you cannot expect miracles. In 1970, when I first used it, it was the standard. Sanitred could be the same product with a new name by another manufacturer. I have never looked into it, but I will take a look to see if they could fine a way to make a better cement-based prouct. Dick Thanks for the info on thoroseal. I appreciate the advice about water around the foundation. I will try to reroute my downspouts farther away from the house and am considering also installing a french drain where my yard doesn't have the best drainage. If you want to look into sani-tred, their website is www.sanitred.com Their product is actually rubber based not cement. Also, with the thoroseal will it be necessary to remove all existing paint on my walls before applying it if the paint isn't pealing. Also if it matters the walls are brick. I just looked at the Sanitred site and saw the two products are completely different. Thoroseal is a cement-based coating the bonds to and becomes a part of the concrete wall and not just a coating. It is entirely compatible with a concrete or concrete block wall. It is designed for use with concrete and can be applied to a damp wall (preferred method). Thoroseal can be coated with almost any other type coating if desired. Sanitred apprears to be an elastic coating that depends on the bond to the concrete, so preparation and elimination of moisture would be necessary for a good bond. It appears that is it a product that can be used for many uses, but is nor designed specifically for any one application. There was very little technical meat (only claims) in the Sanitred site, so the use with other materials as coating is unknown. In either case, you will have to plug the joint that existes between the floor slab and the joint. If you keep the water away, you eliminate the problems. Dick Hi - I have cracks in my basement floor, and a water-table problem. After 12+ hours of steady, heavy rains I get water coming up through the cracks in the floor. Would this Thoroseal stuff work on the floor, or would hydrostatic pressure win out? Thanks, Dave First get rid of the water with proper exterior drainage and downspout extensions (8-12' if necessary). The water coming up through cracks in a slab is forced through by pressure and a high water table. A coating will not work. Opening up the joints and forcing in hydraulic cement into the crack wiil provide relief. Thoro Products makes this (Thoroplug) and there are many other suppliers of this generic material. Proper preperation and application (forcing into the crack) is the key. The cement sets very quickly (minutes) and will be very hard. Interior drain tile or even a perforated sump will reduce the pressure under the slab. Dick HI - Thank you for the response. We have gutters on the house, and the water is carried away by PVC pipes in the ground, and all of this is functioning. My wife and I received a quote about 2 years ago from a contractor who would come in and install a drainage system (trough dug down to the footing, crushed stone, perforated black pipe, etc, with the water carried 100' away from the house). It was a very reasonable quote, but out of reach financially at the time. But we realize this would be the best thing to do, and we are saving up to do this. I was under the impression that hydraulic cement forced into floor cracks would simply get popped out when faced with the pressure of a high water table (we live just outside of Boston, and right now the whole area is inundated with rain). This is a reason why I did not do it, along with how the water seeps in through certain parts of the floor, where there really are no well defined cracks (I could elaborate on this if you would like). One thing in your reply that caught my eye was the mention of a perforated sump. Could you elaborate on that, please? We have a sump at one end of the basement with a working pump, but the sump is an enclosed pit. It seem as though (my opinion) the original owner resigned himself to the fact that water would get in, so just direct the water flow to the hole inside the house and pump it out. Many people I have talked with cannot figure out why this sump would be enclosed, and not open to the earth. By a perforated sump, do you mean one that is exposed to the earth, and if so, should I try to open this up by jack-hammering out the concrete that makes up this pit? Thanks, David By a perforated sump, I mean a low-cost method to remove some of the water around a foundation. It consists of a large sump (usually plastic) with some holes in the upper portion. The sump is surrounded by gravel. Water enters through the gravel and holes to accumulate in the bottom of the sump. When it gets high enough, the pump kicks on and pumps out what water is in the bottom part of the sump. Because depends on the water to travel through the soil, it is localized and no too effective to reduce the water table unless you have sand under your slab. There really is no good substitute for either interior or exterior drain tile around a foundation. Interior drains are usually more effective to decrease the water under the slab for obvious reasons. Hydraulic cement is a proven method to stop the flow of water through cracks. When done properly with correct crack preparation, it will resist much higher pressure than you would get in a basement. The key is preparation and application. It is not like smearing om a mixture of normal cement, sand and water. Dick Dick - Thanks for the very helpful response. David Thoroseal in my experience does adhere very well when properly applied. Thoroseal reps would be able to describe their products performance better than I or most anyone though. In my opinion, Thoroseal does lack some physical properties that are necessary in order to permanently waterproof any basement or structure. Since it is a cementicious product (made of cement) it severely lacks flexibility, elongation and can not tolerate movement of the structure what so ever. We all know that basements/foundations/structures move, shift and settle. Cracks are formed by movement … it would be reasonable to assume that this movement can reoccur in the future. If you patch cracks with cement/cementicious materials … the cracks can reflect through. Physical Qualities That Are Required In Order To Permanently Waterproof Any Structure: 1 - Sealing of 100% of all surfaces is critical … in other words the material used should be 100% impervious to water, moisture, vapor and ideally radon too otherwise it can not be a reliable waterproofing system. 2 – This material MUST be able to permanently withstand ‘moisture vapor drive’ and ‘negative hydrostatic pressure’ otherwise it WILL release from the surface. 3 – The material MUST remain permanently flexible otherwise when movement occurs or the material WILL crack. Many materials do sound promising when reading their advertising. A material may be extremely flexible, but lacks in withstanding pressure. Many withstand negative hydrostatic pressure, but will not tolerate any movement of the structure. There is all type of scenarios, but if a material lacks just 1 of the required physical characteristics the system can fail. This is why no one uses cement in expansion joints. Before finishing a basement … remember your insurance lies beneath the finishing materials. Originally Posted by Concretemasonry I just looked at the Sanitred site and saw the two products are completely different. Thoroseal is a cement-based coating the bonds to and becomes a part of the concrete wall and not just a coating. It is entirely compatible with a concrete or concrete block wall. It is designed for use with concrete and can be applied to a damp wall (preferred method). Thoroseal can be coated with almost any other type coating if desired. Sanitred apprears to be an elastic coating that depends on the bond to the concrete, so preparation and elimination of moisture would be necessary for a good bond. It appears that is it a product that can be used for many uses, but is nor designed specifically for any one application. There was very little technical meat (only claims) in the Sanitred site, so the use with other materials as coating is unknown. In either case, you will have to plug the joint that existes between the floor slab and the joint. If you keep the water away, you eliminate the problems. Dick SaniTred advises against the use of what they call Crystalline Technology Waterproofing Products I wonder if Thor products are considered that type of technology. I do not beleive that Thoroseal is based on a liquid that supposedly penetrates and then forms crystals. Because is composed of the same basic materials that are in concrete, it is very compatible and bonds very well. It works because of the compatibility and the curing densifies the coating and bonds very well. It also benefits from any residual moisture in the concrete that provides ideal conditions for curing and maximum density. Dick
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